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Aug 24, 2015 19:34:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by forceecho on Aug 24, 2015 19:34:30 GMT
I could have sworn Man of Steel had Clark trying to get Zod to stop doing shit for almost the entire time they interacted on screen, not just for the five seconds before he snaps his neck. That completely misses the point of what I was saying. Fighting does not count as character development or any sort of meaningful introspection. |
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Aug 24, 2015 19:44:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by forceecho on Aug 24, 2015 19:44:33 GMT
The start of that film pretty much told you in Lois's conversation with Clark that Clark Kent was going around in his travels and saving people for years where ever he was. People forget that nice big machine that Superman had to stop that almost destroyed the city. Superman was fighting off the Kryptonians in Smallvilles while saving the military at the same time, had to stop the big machine from destroying the city, and literally was fighting Zod who had snapped once the ship was destroyed send his troops back to the Phantom Zone. Superman literally was begging Zod to not kill the family with his heat vision and when he killed Zod he dropped to the ground yelling at what Zod made him do. He literally had a sad face on with his eyes becoming a teary and was going to cry before Lois came to help him. He didn't randomly kill him. Superman had no character development? Did people forget the conversations with the Preacher, his mom, Jor El, and Lois? So his travels get a mention in passing conversation? So? That doesn't make it a significant part of the movie. The whole travelling the world arc was completely glossed over. Did you even watch the movie? He literally punches Zod through buildings. That's completely on him. He could have easily taken the fight outside of a populated city center, but I guess he just didn't feel like it? Crying after you do something is not character development bigballerju. The decision to kill Zod took place in about ten seconds. As a result, it had little to no emotional value. It was just cheap. When I saw Superman kill Zod, I was just like "ok, whatever." It should have been a monumental part of the story, not something tacked on the end. No, he really didn't have any character development at all. Simply having conversations with people does not mean you develop as a character. Besides the laughably bad dialogue that often doesn't even make any sense (Pa Kent telling Superman that he should effectively murder people rather than dare to be different), Superman goes through no real journey as a character. The movie could have been about him finding what role he has in the world, and it could have been about him coming to grips with the reality of killing, instead it was about none of those. |
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Post by Ruinus on Aug 24, 2015 19:57:31 GMT
Could Superman have just covered the General's eyes with his own hands? I mean, the dude is fireproof, right? It wouldn't have mattered. Again, Clark's decision to kill Zod wasn't made there in 5 seconds, it was a decision that was being made throughout the entire time Zod was on Earth. Clark attempted to find a way to avoid the entire conflict by turning himself in to the US Army and then to Zod. It was only when he was pushed and when Zod repeatedly showed that he would not stop that Clark had to kill Zod. People forget that: - Zod was showing incredible skill with his powers. Despite having only gained his powers a few hours prior, he was evenly matched with Clark for most of the fight. Not surprising given he had actual military training.
- There was no way to restrain Zod. Even the fight to defeat him leveled a city.
- Further conflict only gave Zod the chance to destroy more of the city and gave him the chance to kill Clark.
The entire moment where Clark has Zod in a chokehold isn't some definitively fight ending moment, since both Zod and Clark can fly. Nothing prevented Zod from simply flying upwards to get out of the hold. It wasn't a situation were Zod's only option was to kill some people with his eye beams, he simply did that to prove a point. A point which was basically "This either stops when I die or you die, there is no other solution."
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Aug 24, 2015 20:01:39 GMT
Post by Ruinus on Aug 24, 2015 20:01:39 GMT
I could have sworn Man of Steel had Clark trying to get Zod to stop doing shit for almost the entire time they interacted on screen, not just for the five seconds before he snaps his neck. That completely misses the point of what I was saying. Fighting does not count as character development or any sort of meaningful introspection.
I'm pointing out how Clark's decision to kill Zod wasn't done in 5 seconds, it was a decision that was formed by the entire series of events caused by Zod's arrival on Earth. Clark's decision wasn't "Do I kill this guy?" It was "How do I stop this guy?" He tried giving Zod what he wanted when he willingly surrendered himself, he tried to beat Zod into submission when they flew around in their fight that leveled the city. Zod's final moments basically forced Clark to kill him, after every other method Clark had tried failed. |
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Post by silversurfer092 on Aug 24, 2015 21:50:14 GMT
Gonna be honest. Forceecho is totally right on all of these points. There was no character development. At all. Even when the scenes with his father were present, in an attempt to show Clark Kent growing up into the person he was, there was no character development. There was "this is who he was told to be, this is who he ended up being" but there was no actual development.
It's like in writing. There's showing and there's telling. We were told he developed, we weren't shown how he developed. I would have loved to have seen Superman just fly around the world, saving people. Like how he saved the people on the oil rig. I want to see more of him getting revenge on some douchebag in the bar. I want to see more of him balancing life between reporter and stopping a mugging two streets down. Less "I MUST SAVE THE WORLD BY LEVELING A WHOLE FUCKING CITY" and more "I actually have to be a real person".
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Aug 24, 2015 22:27:55 GMT
Post by DamagingRob on Aug 24, 2015 22:27:55 GMT
^I don't even like Superman that much, but that post is golden. For the record, I have not seen Man of Steel.
Fantastic Four is being advertised on our site. This means I should go see it, right?
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Post by DamagingRob on Aug 24, 2015 22:36:41 GMT
Fantastic Four is being advertised on our site. This means I should go see it, right? Pfft. Like I'd ever go to the theater, these days. Living in the middle of nowhere is such a drag.. |
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Aug 24, 2015 23:17:22 GMT
Post by Ruinus on Aug 24, 2015 23:17:22 GMT
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Aug 25, 2015 0:10:03 GMT
Post by forceecho on Aug 25, 2015 0:10:03 GMT
That completely misses the point of what I was saying. Fighting does not count as character development or any sort of meaningful introspection.
I'm pointing out how Clark's decision to kill Zod wasn't done in 5 seconds, it was a decision that was formed by the entire series of events caused by Zod's arrival on Earth. Clark's decision wasn't "Do I kill this guy?" It was "How do I stop this guy?" He tried giving Zod what he wanted when he willingly surrendered himself, he tried to beat Zod into submission when they flew around in their fight that leveled the city. Zod's final moments basically forced Clark to kill him, after every other method Clark had tried failed.Ok yeah, in the context of the structure of the movie that Zach Snyder made, it made sense (although I'm still not sure why Zod had to use Earth specifically to terraform into Krypton). I'm not arguing that Superman killing Zod didn't make any sense or even that it wasn't the right thing to do, what I'm arguing is that the act carried no emotional weight whatsoever. I saw Supes snap his neck and I couldn't give a shit. It didn't really mean anything to me, and that's not how I imagine Supes killing, it should be a monumental act, the crux of the entire story. Even in the old Golden Age comics when Superman killed Zod, it had real weight. Superman roamed the planet for days. And when he finally made the decision to kill Zod, you could actually almost feel what Superman was going through. Same thing when Flash killed Zoom. Anyway, I just watched Hitman: Agent 47. It was the first movie in my life where I walked out of the theater before finishing it. |
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Aug 25, 2015 0:33:16 GMT
Post by DamagingRob on Aug 25, 2015 0:33:16 GMT
Shit, Hitman's that bad? Did you like the first one? I recall enjoying it, but at the time, I had never played a Hitman game. I don't know what I'd think of it, now that I have.
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Aug 25, 2015 9:30:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 9:30:43 GMT
Um... Comedy gold... Yeah... |
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Post by Indolent on Aug 25, 2015 23:20:33 GMT
Well, Rodan being a pterodactyl's always been a fun design for me. I mean a gigantic pteranodon that spits uranium beams is a fun monster to me, especially with the gale force gusts he kicks up merely passing over. Maybe he'll have a connection to Legendary Goji in a similar vein like the prior Rodans. I'm mighty pleased about the sequel to Godzilla 2014, even if it wasn't honestly that incredible. By that I mean Big G only had like eleven minutes of appearances on screen. This and the fact a phenomenal actor was killed off early in the movie... It was still enjoyable, of course. I loved seeing Thunderthighs strolling around like he was king shit of planet mudball and chomping any stray MUTOs that had anything to say about it. I loved how passive Godzilla was around the humans, especially the armada. Save for his flooding Honolulu, definitely an oops on his part. And his wading through the bridge was totally the humans' fault you guys, naturally the big beastie's gonna be a bit irate if you shoot him with battleship cannons... Anyway, I'll be psyched to see King Ghidorah. He'll probably be another apex predator awakening from a deep slumber near the planet's core, if not a malicious titan of terror and conqueror of space. Maybe he'll be from the Moon.  And people... people! Why not just have a Godzilla Jr. face off with a slightly larger King Kong if y'all wanna see something like that? Plausible enough that it's possible I think. I think I can agree with the flexible natures of Godzilla and Ghidorah, they've always been intriguing characters. I did like the one twist they applied when King Ghidorah was the guardian of the world at one point and Godzilla the demon.  |
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Aug 26, 2015 0:57:50 GMT
Post by Ruinus on Aug 26, 2015 0:57:50 GMT
On the topic of Godzilla being sorta passive around humans, I took that to mean that he had inadvertently thought that humans were friendly to him. Consider, he comes from a time when he and other MUTOs feasted on radiation (somehow), and the opening montage of the movie shows him being bombed repeatedly by nuclear weapons. Presumably none of those hit him (because it'd be pretty ridiculous to assume he can be hit with a point-contact nuke and survive), but from his point of view he was receiving lots and lots of food thrown at him. Granted, it was loud and dangerous, but it was radioactive food nonetheless.
Hence why he didn't seem to go out of his way to wreck buildings and why he seemingly attempts to avoid any damage caused to that naval fleet. From his point of view, the MUTOs are destroying one of his major food sources.
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Aug 26, 2015 3:09:17 GMT
Post by Indolent on Aug 26, 2015 3:09:17 GMT
This is very true.
Though I'm of the opinion while he wasn't hit by the explosions directly, he at least withstood the shockwaves anyway.
Also, if you wanna go by the comic that ties into the movie? He survives being near the impact of the meteor that splinters Pangaea apart (it looks like it hits him and his kaiju opponent directly) and goes into a slumber as the years pass. Which is hilarious considering his being beat on by the pair of MUTOs and a massive skyscraper falling on him necessitated his need for a brief nappy nap.
I find it intriguing though: he's never really attacked the humans before for radioactivity, though he has been assaulted by them. Perhaps whatever he gets from closer to the core plus the occasional exposure from the humans is enough. From the comic, he only appears when there are other kaijus threatening the world in some shape or form, which I think fits your theory of their being a threat to the humans' presence in Godzilla's eyes.
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Aug 26, 2015 3:59:54 GMT
Post by Ruinus on Aug 26, 2015 3:59:54 GMT
Not only is that meteor thing pretty ridiculous considering he gets beat up by a fight with MUTOs and buildings collapsing on him, but Pangea broke apart over several million years due to plate tectonics, not in a single asteroid strike. There's no meteor impact powerful enough to rearrange continents like that... without probably also searing the entire surface of the Earth clean of all life.
Anyway, he probably never assaulted mankind before because prior to the 1940s, radioactive materials were almost unheard of on the surface, hence he had no need to even go up there. The atomic bombings of the 1940s is what taught him that humans could "feed" him. Though, he must have a slow metabolism or can take meals decades apart, since atomic testing ceased years ago.
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