Post by kainboa on Oct 20, 2014 19:17:58 GMT
With the discussion in the Timetable for electricferret.com about why Pseudonym was banned and the events that took place during that time. I've decided to post the email conversation that took place between Serge and myself following my ban.
Partially as an additional piece of information to the general event, partially as a view into how Serge was acting on a somewhat more private footing rather than in the open forum, and partially as a example of how Not to act.
A bit of quick info before the email conversation, I was banned around the 28th of march in 2012, I can't remember the exact date, but to the best of my recollection it was a few days before that.
From what I can recall, I decided to wait at least a day or two after my ban to give Serge some time to cool down, before sending my first email.
I'll be posting the date of each email first, then add a name to the sender of the email, in the hopes of making it a bit easier to figure out who's who.
~~~~~~~~~~
3/28/12
Kain
Hello
I'm sending this email, since I am sincerely curious over why I have been banned from the Electric ferret site.
I have broken no rules, nor been antagonistic towards anyone, I have simply voiced my disagreement with the latest of your actions in a calm and rational way, and forwarded my brothers posts.
If there are any actual reasons behind my banning, other than simply me disagreeing with you, I would very much like to know why.
Sincerely
Dennis Birch
Known on the forum as Kainboa
~~~~~~~~~~
3/28/12
Serge
Hi there
There are a million or more places on the web for you to go. I don’t know why you are so fascinated with being here. It’s weird. Please move on.
Thank you.
-serge
~~~~~~~~~~
3/29/12
Kain
Hello
While there are a million or more places to go, none of them have the community which I have been a part of for the past couple of years, nor are the topics the same as on Electric Ferret.
Is it so weird that I wish to remain a part of a community that shares my interests, and in which I have cultivated several friendships?
Or is it the fact that an adult can be interested in comics, that you find weird, in which case, I suggest you take a look at the interests of yourself and the moderator group, since all the moderators are adults, and are all interested in comics.
Finally, I want to restate my question, since you didn't actually answer it, I'll even go a step further, and put it in blunt terms.
Why was I banned?
I have, as far as I know, broken no rules, nor been antagonistic towards anyone, I have simply voiced my disagreement with the latest of your actions in a calm and rational way, and forwarded my brothers posts.
If I have actually broken a rule, then I am more than willing to give an apology for taking your time and moving on as you put it.
Sincerely
Dennis Birch
~~~~~~~~~~
3/29/12
Serge
Hi There
I’m not sure where this concept of “rules” is coming from. This is my personal webspace - my private property.
As is the case with anyone’s private property or business I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at any time for any reason. You’ve been asked to leave. You are not owed any explanation or even the courtesy of a reply.
You guys really like to go back and forth about things, I can see that, but please don’t write me. Instead, go do something productive like build your own website where you can discuss whatever you like and run it the way you see fit.
Thank you
-serge
~~~~~~~~~~
4/24/12
Kain
Hello
Since some time has gone by, and based on what I've heard from some of the members that are still on CBUB, it seems that you have become somewhat more rational than your initial emotional outburst.
I'm sending this message hoping to actually get a rational response to my initial question, which you never actually answered, but rather simply danced around.
Moving on from that, and replying to your last email.
First off, the concept of rules, comes from the rules posted on EF, none of which I have broken.
The fact that the rules are posted in the first place, is a fairly good indication of what is and is not, allowed on the site.
As far as I can remember, there are no rules stating that merely disagreeing with something one of the mods post, is a bannable offense, or any variation of that rule.
You cannot expect people to follow a rule, that nobody has heard about.
Secondly, while you are correct, in that it is your private property, and that you can do with it as you wish, it is hardly the mark of a rational adult, to ban people, simply for disagreeing with one of your decisions, after all, simply speaking out against something, as long as the remarks are kept in a civil tone, is one of the constitutional rights in america, is it not?
Finally, I was never asked to leave, I was simply thrown out, without any warning or explanation as to why, hence these emails.
So I will ask once more.
Why was I banned?
Sincerely
Dennis Birch
~~~~~~~~~~
4/24/12
Serge
Now where does it say I have to be rational? That’s not a rule.
Anyways... to the point. “Why was I banned?” Because you pissed me off ... not a big deal in itself really... but THEN you made me spend $199.00 for a Proxy Blocker. I could have had Aerosmith tickets instead.
Thanks!
-serge
~~~~~~~~~~
4/26/12
Kain
You are correct that there are no actual rule about having to be rational, however for an adult, and especially for some one in a position of some sort of power, it is usually an unwritten rule.
Moving on to your point, being banned for pissing you off I can sort of understand, especially seen in the light of the banning spree you went on during your little temper tantrum.
Since all the others had their bans removed however, I have a hard time understanding why mine weren't.
Especially since I weren't the one who, as you put it, made you spend 200$ for a proxy blocker, I'm guessing that you're talking about my brother, he was the one who went by the user-name Sirmethos on the site.
Though you're making a logical fallacy here, nobody made you do anything, the fact that you spent 200$ on a proxy blocker, is entirely your own fault, and trying to pin the blame on somebody else, is quite frankly stupid.
If you hadn't blown up in the beginning, banning people for no reason, then Sirmethos wouldn't have had any reason to start using proxies, which in turn wouldn't have "made" you buy a proxy blocker.
Furthermore, there are users in the past, who have done basically the same thing, using a proxy to get passed a ban, and there since they haven't broken any of the rules on the forum after that, there haven't been any further problems.
Finally, if the money you've spent on the site is such a big drain on your resources, it would be a fairly simple deal to setup a donation of some kind, I know that there are several members who have said that if it were possible, they would gladly donate to keep the site running.
Sincerely
Dennis Birch
~~~~~~~~~~
4/26/12
Serge
OK, well, that was really long. So anyways, what is it you want from me exactly?
~~~~~~~~~~
4/28/12
Kain
Well, two things really.
First off, I would like to be unbanned.
Considering that the reason you were pissed off in the first place has become a non-issue, what with the new adult section of the off topic board being created, and the fact that the only thing I did to piss you were, were post my brothers responses to various comments made, and made my own opinion on the matter known.
Something that is pretty much what some of the other members were banned for, and they were later unbanned, so seems to me a bit hypocritical to keep me banned.
Though I will admit I can to a certain point understand why my brother deserves to be kept banned, he did circumvent a ban, in order to keep doing what he was banned for, which if not directly against the rules, do break the spirit of them.
However, I will again point out, that if you hadn't blown up over a misunderstanding, then there wouldn't have been a problem, if you hadn't started throwing bans around like confetti at a parade, my brother wouldn't have circumvented a ban that came to pass simply because you were throwing a temper tantrum, rather than because he had actually broken any rules.
Once again, I will post his challenge, If you can actually point out, anything that he has said, that is wrong, he will apologize for it, however considering that thus far your responses have been a mix of acting like a preteen going "I'm right because I say so" and completely ignore any points made by the opposite side.
The second thing is that I would actually very much like you to respond to the challenge.
I'm not really expecting that to happen, but hope springs eternal as they say.
~~~~~~~~~~
4/28/12
Any normal and sensible person would have replied simply “unban me please” and that would have been the end of it. You would once again have access to the site and life would have moved on.
You just make it too hard on me man. All these long emails with your demands. Forget it. Quit writing me. No, seriously, quit writing me.
Thanks!
-serge
~~~~~~~~~~
4/29/12
Kain
I'm going to take this from the back.
There hasn't been any demands in my emails, merely polite requests, if you have a hard time seeing the difference between the two, I would suggest you either attend a reading comprehension course or start using a dictionary.
The only reason they are so long, is because I keep trying to explain various things to you, that you obviously don't understand, if you showed just a small hint of actually understanding the problem, then my emails would be drastically shorter, as it stands however, they seem to keep growing.
Thus far, I have been acting like a normal and sensible person, I've been polite and asked what the problem was, pointed out that I haven't actually broken any rules, and later on pointed out that your reason for banning me was nonsensical and hypocritical, yet your persist in completely ignoring any point made.
The normal and sensible thing to do, is actually to keep doing what I've been doing so far, pointing out that I have done nothing wrong, and hoping that you will actually come to your senses.
Sincerely
Dennis Birch
~~~~~~~~~~
This was the last email that was sent between Serge and myself, however the following two emails back and forth were between Methos and Serge.
Minor note, at the end of Methos email, there were 3 imagelinks, that are unfortunately now defunct so they won't be included in this post.
~~~~~~~~~~
4/28/12
Methos
Hello
My brother has just shared with me, the email conversation that you have had with him. In one of your emails, you said that the reason he remains banned is that he made you "spend $199.00 for a Proxy Blocker."
Now.
1. He wasn't the one using Proxy servers to circumvent a ban. In fact, he was only banned once and has, aside from emailing you, accepted that(i.e. not circumventing it in any way).
2. People have been using proxies to circumvent bans for a long time. More than one of the admins have said in the past that they were already aware of this problem. Thus, my using proxy servers, was at worst, the reason that you realized the problem was there, not the cause of the problem itself.
3. As I have already said several times during the entire episode, Proxy servers is far from the only way for me to circumvent a ban, and blocking proxy servers is no more effective in keeping me out, than the original ban. I even informed you of that two or three times. Thus, even before buying your proxy blocker, you knew that it wouldn't keep me out. So either I wasn't the reason for your buying the proxy blocker, in which case your reason for keeping my brother banned is bullshit. Or you willingly chose to ignore my warnings about that, in which case your own choice, has made you essentially throw "$199.00" out the window.
I can easily understand why I remain banned, if nothing else it's a matter of pride. It was a calculated risk from my side, to confront you about your childishness in public, rather than in private, and the risk turned bad. It happens.
But by your own words, my brother has done nothing except pissing you off, an offense where everyone else who got banned for the same, has already been unbanned.
Sincerely
Methos
P.S. I have here added links to 3 screenshots, as proof that I can still access the site.
~~~~~~~~~~
5/1/12
Serge
he following accounts were unbanned:
- kainboa
- sirmethos
If you see the Ferris Bueller image then Log out and Log back in.
Run a CBUB Match or buy off a loss and the system will re-evaluate your existing FPA.
-serge
~~~~~~~~~~
Partially as an additional piece of information to the general event, partially as a view into how Serge was acting on a somewhat more private footing rather than in the open forum, and partially as a example of how Not to act.
A bit of quick info before the email conversation, I was banned around the 28th of march in 2012, I can't remember the exact date, but to the best of my recollection it was a few days before that.
From what I can recall, I decided to wait at least a day or two after my ban to give Serge some time to cool down, before sending my first email.
I'll be posting the date of each email first, then add a name to the sender of the email, in the hopes of making it a bit easier to figure out who's who.
~~~~~~~~~~
3/28/12
Kain
Hello
I'm sending this email, since I am sincerely curious over why I have been banned from the Electric ferret site.
I have broken no rules, nor been antagonistic towards anyone, I have simply voiced my disagreement with the latest of your actions in a calm and rational way, and forwarded my brothers posts.
If there are any actual reasons behind my banning, other than simply me disagreeing with you, I would very much like to know why.
Sincerely
Dennis Birch
Known on the forum as Kainboa
~~~~~~~~~~
3/28/12
Serge
Hi there
There are a million or more places on the web for you to go. I don’t know why you are so fascinated with being here. It’s weird. Please move on.
Thank you.
-serge
~~~~~~~~~~
3/29/12
Kain
Hello
While there are a million or more places to go, none of them have the community which I have been a part of for the past couple of years, nor are the topics the same as on Electric Ferret.
Is it so weird that I wish to remain a part of a community that shares my interests, and in which I have cultivated several friendships?
Or is it the fact that an adult can be interested in comics, that you find weird, in which case, I suggest you take a look at the interests of yourself and the moderator group, since all the moderators are adults, and are all interested in comics.
Finally, I want to restate my question, since you didn't actually answer it, I'll even go a step further, and put it in blunt terms.
Why was I banned?
I have, as far as I know, broken no rules, nor been antagonistic towards anyone, I have simply voiced my disagreement with the latest of your actions in a calm and rational way, and forwarded my brothers posts.
If I have actually broken a rule, then I am more than willing to give an apology for taking your time and moving on as you put it.
Sincerely
Dennis Birch
~~~~~~~~~~
3/29/12
Serge
Hi There
I’m not sure where this concept of “rules” is coming from. This is my personal webspace - my private property.
As is the case with anyone’s private property or business I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at any time for any reason. You’ve been asked to leave. You are not owed any explanation or even the courtesy of a reply.
You guys really like to go back and forth about things, I can see that, but please don’t write me. Instead, go do something productive like build your own website where you can discuss whatever you like and run it the way you see fit.
Thank you
-serge
~~~~~~~~~~
4/24/12
Kain
Hello
Since some time has gone by, and based on what I've heard from some of the members that are still on CBUB, it seems that you have become somewhat more rational than your initial emotional outburst.
I'm sending this message hoping to actually get a rational response to my initial question, which you never actually answered, but rather simply danced around.
Moving on from that, and replying to your last email.
First off, the concept of rules, comes from the rules posted on EF, none of which I have broken.
The fact that the rules are posted in the first place, is a fairly good indication of what is and is not, allowed on the site.
As far as I can remember, there are no rules stating that merely disagreeing with something one of the mods post, is a bannable offense, or any variation of that rule.
You cannot expect people to follow a rule, that nobody has heard about.
Secondly, while you are correct, in that it is your private property, and that you can do with it as you wish, it is hardly the mark of a rational adult, to ban people, simply for disagreeing with one of your decisions, after all, simply speaking out against something, as long as the remarks are kept in a civil tone, is one of the constitutional rights in america, is it not?
Finally, I was never asked to leave, I was simply thrown out, without any warning or explanation as to why, hence these emails.
So I will ask once more.
Why was I banned?
Sincerely
Dennis Birch
~~~~~~~~~~
4/24/12
Serge
Now where does it say I have to be rational? That’s not a rule.
Anyways... to the point. “Why was I banned?” Because you pissed me off ... not a big deal in itself really... but THEN you made me spend $199.00 for a Proxy Blocker. I could have had Aerosmith tickets instead.
Thanks!
-serge
~~~~~~~~~~
4/26/12
Kain
You are correct that there are no actual rule about having to be rational, however for an adult, and especially for some one in a position of some sort of power, it is usually an unwritten rule.
Moving on to your point, being banned for pissing you off I can sort of understand, especially seen in the light of the banning spree you went on during your little temper tantrum.
Since all the others had their bans removed however, I have a hard time understanding why mine weren't.
Especially since I weren't the one who, as you put it, made you spend 200$ for a proxy blocker, I'm guessing that you're talking about my brother, he was the one who went by the user-name Sirmethos on the site.
Though you're making a logical fallacy here, nobody made you do anything, the fact that you spent 200$ on a proxy blocker, is entirely your own fault, and trying to pin the blame on somebody else, is quite frankly stupid.
If you hadn't blown up in the beginning, banning people for no reason, then Sirmethos wouldn't have had any reason to start using proxies, which in turn wouldn't have "made" you buy a proxy blocker.
Furthermore, there are users in the past, who have done basically the same thing, using a proxy to get passed a ban, and there since they haven't broken any of the rules on the forum after that, there haven't been any further problems.
Finally, if the money you've spent on the site is such a big drain on your resources, it would be a fairly simple deal to setup a donation of some kind, I know that there are several members who have said that if it were possible, they would gladly donate to keep the site running.
Sincerely
Dennis Birch
~~~~~~~~~~
4/26/12
Serge
OK, well, that was really long. So anyways, what is it you want from me exactly?
~~~~~~~~~~
4/28/12
Kain
Well, two things really.
First off, I would like to be unbanned.
Considering that the reason you were pissed off in the first place has become a non-issue, what with the new adult section of the off topic board being created, and the fact that the only thing I did to piss you were, were post my brothers responses to various comments made, and made my own opinion on the matter known.
Something that is pretty much what some of the other members were banned for, and they were later unbanned, so seems to me a bit hypocritical to keep me banned.
Though I will admit I can to a certain point understand why my brother deserves to be kept banned, he did circumvent a ban, in order to keep doing what he was banned for, which if not directly against the rules, do break the spirit of them.
However, I will again point out, that if you hadn't blown up over a misunderstanding, then there wouldn't have been a problem, if you hadn't started throwing bans around like confetti at a parade, my brother wouldn't have circumvented a ban that came to pass simply because you were throwing a temper tantrum, rather than because he had actually broken any rules.
Once again, I will post his challenge, If you can actually point out, anything that he has said, that is wrong, he will apologize for it, however considering that thus far your responses have been a mix of acting like a preteen going "I'm right because I say so" and completely ignore any points made by the opposite side.
The second thing is that I would actually very much like you to respond to the challenge.
I'm not really expecting that to happen, but hope springs eternal as they say.
~~~~~~~~~~
4/28/12
Any normal and sensible person would have replied simply “unban me please” and that would have been the end of it. You would once again have access to the site and life would have moved on.
You just make it too hard on me man. All these long emails with your demands. Forget it. Quit writing me. No, seriously, quit writing me.
Thanks!
-serge
~~~~~~~~~~
4/29/12
Kain
I'm going to take this from the back.
There hasn't been any demands in my emails, merely polite requests, if you have a hard time seeing the difference between the two, I would suggest you either attend a reading comprehension course or start using a dictionary.
The only reason they are so long, is because I keep trying to explain various things to you, that you obviously don't understand, if you showed just a small hint of actually understanding the problem, then my emails would be drastically shorter, as it stands however, they seem to keep growing.
Thus far, I have been acting like a normal and sensible person, I've been polite and asked what the problem was, pointed out that I haven't actually broken any rules, and later on pointed out that your reason for banning me was nonsensical and hypocritical, yet your persist in completely ignoring any point made.
The normal and sensible thing to do, is actually to keep doing what I've been doing so far, pointing out that I have done nothing wrong, and hoping that you will actually come to your senses.
Sincerely
Dennis Birch
~~~~~~~~~~
This was the last email that was sent between Serge and myself, however the following two emails back and forth were between Methos and Serge.
Minor note, at the end of Methos email, there were 3 imagelinks, that are unfortunately now defunct so they won't be included in this post.
~~~~~~~~~~
4/28/12
Methos
Hello
My brother has just shared with me, the email conversation that you have had with him. In one of your emails, you said that the reason he remains banned is that he made you "spend $199.00 for a Proxy Blocker."
Now.
1. He wasn't the one using Proxy servers to circumvent a ban. In fact, he was only banned once and has, aside from emailing you, accepted that(i.e. not circumventing it in any way).
2. People have been using proxies to circumvent bans for a long time. More than one of the admins have said in the past that they were already aware of this problem. Thus, my using proxy servers, was at worst, the reason that you realized the problem was there, not the cause of the problem itself.
3. As I have already said several times during the entire episode, Proxy servers is far from the only way for me to circumvent a ban, and blocking proxy servers is no more effective in keeping me out, than the original ban. I even informed you of that two or three times. Thus, even before buying your proxy blocker, you knew that it wouldn't keep me out. So either I wasn't the reason for your buying the proxy blocker, in which case your reason for keeping my brother banned is bullshit. Or you willingly chose to ignore my warnings about that, in which case your own choice, has made you essentially throw "$199.00" out the window.
I can easily understand why I remain banned, if nothing else it's a matter of pride. It was a calculated risk from my side, to confront you about your childishness in public, rather than in private, and the risk turned bad. It happens.
But by your own words, my brother has done nothing except pissing you off, an offense where everyone else who got banned for the same, has already been unbanned.
Sincerely
Methos
P.S. I have here added links to 3 screenshots, as proof that I can still access the site.
~~~~~~~~~~
5/1/12
Serge
he following accounts were unbanned:
- kainboa
- sirmethos
If you see the Ferris Bueller image then Log out and Log back in.
Run a CBUB Match or buy off a loss and the system will re-evaluate your existing FPA.
-serge
~~~~~~~~~~